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2020-06-02

All I know about the Philips QFU mainboard problems

I have had my share of experiments and frustration with the Philips QFU mainboards from the xxx7 (QFU 1.1, 2.1 for some 6xx7) and xxx8 (QFU 1.2) series. I am going to continuously collect everything I know here in this post.

General architecture

The main Fusion CPU is actually two CPUs in one plus the Trident graphics device and therefore also called a system on a chip (SOC):
  • The boot processor, which runs on 3.3v standby voltage. It reads its bootscript (the standby software) from the SPI EEPROM 7CT3, which is a M25P05 512kBit type.
  • The main processor requires the 12V supply to be up and is fed by a number of DCDC converters. Its software is stored in the 8 GBit NAND flash rom. This flash does not only contain the main software (the linux file system with the apps on it), but also the model-specific security keys and the MAC address. This is why a binary image from one board might not work properly on another.
  • There are two types of Fusion. The 120 and the 240. The exact difference I do not know. The 240 seems to be used in the higher models (7xxx and up).

The original sins

Undersized cooling

Philips dramatically undersized the cooling of the Fusion processor. They stuffed too many functions onto the chip and did not take care of sufficient cooling. The Fusion 240 seem to have a larger heat sink with proper spring-loaded mounting posts, which stick through the board. The 120ies have sloppy small sinks glued with a heat pad. I am not 100% sure about the sink sizes though, so far I've seen larger sinks on QFU1.1 mainly.

The back cover is so close to the heat sink, it almost sits on it. The engineers thought that a little convection cooling would do the job. Absolutely ridiculous. 

Cases have been reported where the sink fell off by itself because the pad glue failed. This indicates that there were temperatures of at least 80°C. When I remove the sinks I use a heat gun and gloves. The pad glue gives up and goes soft at about 80°.

In a proper PC architecture, such a chip would sport a large cooler with a fan on it.

The larger sinks seem to have the side effect of grilling the SPI boot EEPROM, which might lose its first data block and render the TV dead. More about that further down.

Warped QFU1.1 boards


The boards of the QFU1.1 series are so thin that they warp around the CPU. Under the CPU the board is flat and around the CPU it bends up and down.

This makes any attempt of reflowing or reballing futile. The chip will never sit flat. I recently reflowed a QFU1.1. When the chip settled, it touched the board at one corner and lifted up a little on the opposite corner. Of course this was a total failure and the board is toast now.
Sometimes during my reflow experiments, the chip even jumped off the board with a snap due to the tension.

The QFU2.1 are better in that respect, but they also tend not to be flat around the CPU.

Known failures

  • TV does not start and blinks 2x red after a couple of minutes. This is the classic. The 2x blink is reported by the boot processor, which observed that the main processor failed to boot. CPU or NAND failure.
  • TV randomly crashes after some time. CPU failure.
  • TV produces distorted image with striping or noise. Image freezes. CPU failure.
  • TV does nothing at all, not even blink. This can be a case of a corrupted SPI EEPROM.

The infamous 2x blinks - the "K" fault

I've seen many of those. When reading the log through the UART service port (see this post how to do that), the log abruptly ends with the letter K. I described this fault in this post.

My suspicion is that the CPU loses communication with the NAND flash. This makes the diagnose, whether the CPU or the NAND is to blame, difficult. In most cases though, the CPU is the culprit.

The only feasible attempt for a "fix" (hack)

The Fusion CPU needs to be heated up to 180°C max in a controlled fashion. The solder must not melt! As explained above, this can ruin the board due to the warping and tension under the CPU. 

I use an IR6500 reflow workstation for it, which allows me to use a controlled temperature curve. 

The next best method is a pre-heated oven and a digital thermometer with a type K remote sensor, which can be attached to the CPU. Those devices only cost a few bucks. This allows for proper monitoring of the temperature since ovens made for households are not precise. 

With any method, cover the plastic parts and electrolytic capacitors in tin foil. It is not strictly necessary to cover the other parts. They can handle it. The temperature is kept below the solder melting point, therefore there is no danger of dropping parts from the bottom side. With the rework station I only use a square tin foil mask around the CPU, just enough to cover the CI-slot.

The solder balls under the CPU do not fully melt until 235° is reached on the top of the CPU. This chip is thick and needs plenty of heating to come off the board.

I would rate the success rate of the baking technique at 50:50. It is like a coin toss. I have had a few successes in a row, but also losing streaks.

The mysterious NAND flash

I tried a to swap the NAND a few times and never succeeded. In this post I documented the tools I use.

In a recent case I copied the original NAND image onto a new chip, soldered it in, and the UART log was gone. After putting back the original NAND, the log still was silent. Something must have happened in between the two actions and I never found out what. The NANDs behaved perfectly fine on the programmer tool and the verification against the image file succeeded. I have not damaged them. My suspicion is that the heat from the bottom preheater had triggered a defect in the CPU or on the board, which brings us back to square one.

I experienced this twice. Only worked on the NAND, and yet, something else broke down. The UART lines are fed directly from the CPU. There is nothing in between. Thus, if nothing is put out there, the CPU is to blame. The service manual says that if there is no log, a communication problem with the NAND could be the reason. I don't understand that, why would the boot processor require the NAND? However, it fits the observation.

There were reports that the NAND image from an identical QFU platform can work. I cannot confirm that as I even failed with the image from the same device. Also, the board-specific parameters and security keys will not match. You might not have network access, and the CI slot might not work after that. The service manuals describe in detail how to reconfigure a generic service board. The necessary tools and software are not available to normal people.

All that brings me to the conclusion that tampering with the NAND is also futile and not worth the time.

The boot SPI EEPROM

This memory chip holds the boot software for the boot (stand-by) processor.

I had only one case where the boot SPI EEPROM was corrupted. I've programmed a few of those for other people. It seems that this is more common in the QFU1.1 boards where the heat sink is covering the chip. It probably doesn't take too much heat, either.

The fix is very easy if you have a programmer yourself or know someone who has. Go to this link for a collection of my tested boot images.

30 comments:

  1. Hi,

    Thanks for this helpful site. I have a 55PFL6008K which started boot looping. If the cord was disconnected long enough, it would boot up in either normal operation or firmware update mode, but after about 30s it would power off (no power draw) and start again, only it would not reach full startup again, just boot looping.

    After your info for the uart i looked at the boot log and couldnt find something helpful, just a bunch of errors and kernel panics.

    Last resort was your baking technique, the ceramic heatsink was only stuck by thermal adhesive and easily removed. After 5min at 215°C i put it back in and all was working again! Now i put an aluminium heatsink with thermal compound on the cpu and fastened with zip ties through the holes. The heatsink is about double the height, so i cut a square into the back cover.

    Thanks for the help and the suggestion!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi again. After fixing the tv at the time of my original comment, a week ago it failed again. Since i could not just let it sit i went through the same procedure again but this time modified the case and board so that a stock intel cooler sits on the cpu and is actively cooled by a 120mm fan attached to the chassis. I dont have much hope it will last a year+ again but now i have time to look for a good deal to a new (non-philips ;) tv.

      Delete
  2. Thanks for your work. I think the hole production of this kind of tv is just waste. the people got cheated from philips. they should never buy one philips tv. every cheap one is better then philips.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hi Alpengeist,

    thanks for your super tip!
    My Philips 55PUS6262/12 did do nothing. So i baked the Processor like you told.
    And i was very happy, the tv started and i could look again.
    But saddly when i turned the tv off, it never startet again :-(

    So today, i will bake it again.
    Fingers crossed!

    Grüsse aus Stuttgart

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hello Alpengeist,

    Great usefull blog. My 55PFL6097K/12 QFU2.1e has the dreaded 'load end! K' problem. I was able to use Putty and read the output via the Serv-U port, after settings the baudrate to 115200.
    As I don't have the equipment to do a controlled heating up of the Fusion CPU, I'm looking for an address or a shop that performs this kind of service.

    Have a nice day.

    Best regards

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi!
      I don't know of any shop who does that. The reason is simple: it is not a proper repair and the chances of failure and therefore trouble for a shop is high.

      Delete
    2. Hello,
      Thank you so much for your reply. I did manage to find a repair service for 90 euros in Linz, Österreich. They claim to offer a Reparatur Service Mainboard Philips QFU2.1E
      https://it-wizard.at/produkt/reparatur-service-mainboard-ssb-310431365664-pfl-serie-qfu2-1e/
      As there are no details of the actual repair on the website I will ask them first what to expect and if they offer warranty on the repaired board. Greetings from Holland

      Delete
    3. Funny, they only fix QFU1.1 boards. To me, this is an indication that they only fix NAND problems, not the CPU. I am convinced that the CPU is unfixable and all reflow/reballing is just useless ceremony. The problem is inside the chip.

      Delete
  5. Hi. I recently found your Blog. Tons of great info! I tried troubleshooting myself using the info provided but I am kind of lost. I have a 55pfl7008k/12 which has the error 53. UART does not output anything sometimes and if it does then only garbage (lines full of HEX 0xFFs). The info above lists that the CPU should be a P240 in the 7xxx models. I have the P120. When plugging in the TV the red light turns on for a very short time before turning off again and after 5 minutes they blink twice.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Welp. Seemed like I got lucky and unlucky. Seems like my UART adapter was labeled wrong. After the CPU reheat I got actual output. It even booted! Sadly the Panel is broken and unusable.

      Delete
  6. Hi. Thank you for writing this blog, it made troubleshooting my 2014 46PFL8008S so much easier. I have access to an IR-reflow oven and used a lead-free profile to fix the FUSION problem. Worked perfectly!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Does anyone knows differences of QFU 1.1, 1.2 and 2.1? Can you in example use lcd panel from 1.2 with 1.1 board?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The LVDS cables vary between the models. Some have one, others two. Also, an earlier model does not have the display parameters of a panel from a later model. So, no, I would not try swapping displays. Besides, the mounting points of the boards may not fit, either.

      Delete
  8. Hi Hermann,
    I read about your Philips QFU tips and decided to bake my 2013 6158k/12 after getting the kernel log "k" stop reading out of the boot sequence.
    The TV started to work again afterwards but showed the same two blink problem again on the next day. So i baked the Mainboard again, but increased the heat to 220 (210 the first time) and increased the bake time from 5 to 7 minutes.
    Again the TV worked and had a third life.. this time for about 2-3 weeks but suddenly showed colored stripes all over the screen and shut off. After unplugging / plugging the power cord the TV worked again for 10-15 minutes before showing those stripes again and turning off. Now I can't turn on the TV, but get the 2 blink error Code again :/
    Any idea what's wrong? Still a Mainboard / CPU problem (tomorrow I'm probably going to bake the TV again) or maybe another problem (t-con?).
    Notable to mention I did NOT remove the heatsink during baking method, but did now read, that I should have done it. What's the reason behind this? In my understanding the heatsink should transfer the baking oven temperature just fine?

    Best regards,
    Tobias

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Tobias,

      when the heatsink stays on, the heat transmission into the chip is slower. Generally there is no guarantee that the baking hack does work reliably, however. Have you cut a hole into the back cover or installed a fan? Without those measures the problem must come back sooner or later. This modification is a must.

      Delete
    2. Thank you very much for your quick reply!

      "when the heatsink stays on, the heat transmission into the chip is slower"
      ok, i'm going to bake the mainboard again with removed heatsink and will report back.

      "Generally there is no guarantee that the baking hack does work reliably, however"
      Yea sure, still being able to revive the mainboard by chance (~50/50) within my limited knowledge and household tool base is quite impressive and i'm quite happy about the results so far - so thanks for your amazing blog and countless forum contributions :)
      "Have you cut a hole into the back cover or installed a fan?" I extended the back cover with a lot of additional holes located above the heatsink. Maybe i'm going to add a pc fan too..

      So do you think the colored stripes are probably back related to the cpu problem too? (not a new problem regarding the t-con board?)

      As i replaced my late philips PFL5603D/10 from 2008? with this one after the first successful baking, I'm gonna try to revive it again and again, as i'm very impressed with its contrast, color representation and ambilight. Though it's probably not going to get as old as the 5603D ..

      Delete
    3. You mentioned that the TV has fallen back to 2 blinks. That's a 100% sign of the same old problem. Stripes appear in some cases. I don't see why the TCON suddenly has any reason to fail. You have to be VERY careful with the flat cables! When they get damaged, the image can get distored or lost altogether. Never pull or push them without pushing down the two black knobs on the socket on the mainboard. I say that because I don't know anyone who worked on those devices who had not broken a cable once.

      Delete
  9. Nice site.Only why dont the fabricator take care of bad produkts?Not only Philips they are a bunch of bandits.Sell a electronic item,tv,washer,oven.Its the same.3 years warranty and then problems/bye a new one is the answer.In my mind how about Tesla and other cars!

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hi, I've been struggling with philips 40pfl7007k / 12 3104 313 65554 for a long time. After 3 to 4 minutes it starts flashing 2x, SDM = 53 I'll try with "SPI EEPROM" if it doesn't come to life - I give up. Does any bin boot image from your collection match this board?
    Thanks Bob

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Bob, the 2 / 53 is not about the SPI. It's the CPU. Try baking the board with about 200° Celcius for 5 minutes or so. If that doesn't help, dump it.

      Delete
  11. I don't know if it makes sense to bake it because it was previously cpu reballing !? hello Bob

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you saying that the CPU has been reballed before? This confirms my suspicion that it is never about the soldering, but the CPU itself. Baking doesn't cost anything and I wouldn't invest a single Cent into these things anymore.

      Delete
  12. Yes, she had been reballing before! You're right, the problem is inside the CPU. I lost a lot of time on this nonsense. Is it worth buying a new cpu on Aliexpress? Thanks for the reply! Greeting

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nonono! Don't waste any more time. The CPUs on Ali cannot be legit. Just let it go :-)

      Delete
  13. 60PFL8708S/12 QFU 1.2 manufactured 2014/1. Had the infamous double blink. Power to SSB card OK, etc. Covered SSB board with tin foil with hole for Fusion AP. Placed tip of digital kitchen thermometer on AP heatshield. Baked in kitchen oven 215 degrees Celsius until thermometer displayed 165 degrees, approx. 7 minutes. After that I didn't dare to bake it any more. After cool down and reassembly TV is working fine again. Many thanks for publishing this repair info!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Update. Everything worked fine until two days ago. Same double blink again. This time I baked in 215 until tip of thermometer, this time on the side of the AP, showed 180 degrees Celsius, 23 minutes(!). Visual bleeding from flux, but otherwise all looked good. TV is working fine again, we'll see for how long.

      Delete
  14. Hallo verehrter Alpengeist!
    Sie sind meine große Hoffnung. Habe Sie auf https://www.repdata.de/wbb2/forum/index.php?thread/81819-philips-46pfl8007k-12-defekt/&pageNo=2 entdeckt und hoffe, dass Sie mir helfen können.
    Mein 46pfl8007k/12 hat leider seit kurzem das "Blink-Problem". Ist der noch zu retten? Bild, Ton, Ambilight alles wunderbar. Und ich möchte den nicht verschrotten, einfach zu gut und mit 46 Zoll ideal passend.

    Repaircafe am 19.02. aufsuchen? Komme aus den "Alpen": Berchtesgadener Land. Aber wenn reparierbar, dann Weg OK.
    Board tauschen eventuell selber machbar. Aber was braucht man wirklich? Netzteil, Mainboard, sonst was? Was kostet das ggf., wo bekommt mans noch? Gebrauchtes zu empfehlen??? Welche Quelle ist seriös???
    Vielen Dank im Voraus für eine hoffentlich erfreuliche Antwort.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Servus,
      ich kann leider keine Hoffnung machen. Das Thema mit den Boards ist durch und alles was ich dazu weiß steht in diesem Post. Reparatur gibt es keine, nur Hacks. Im Repair Cafe kann man sowas auch nicht fixen. Boards gibt es weit und breit keine am Markt und falls doch, sind die eh auch gleich kaputt.
      Die einzige Maßnahme ist, das Board zu backen im Ofen. 180° tun es auch, nach neuesten Erkenntnissen.

      Delete
    2. Vielen Dank für die prompte Antwort!
      Habe gerade von einer Philips-Vertragswerkstatt folgende Info bekommen:
      Bei Ihrem Gerät ist vermutlich das Mainboard defekt, eine Werkstattreparatur würde incl. Lohn, Ersatzteil und Mwst ca. 710,72 € betragen.
      Da fällt eine Entscheidung wahrlich leicht!
      Also jetzt den Backofen herrichten. Ob man da mit Ober- und Unterhitze oder nur mit Oberhitze arbeiten sollte - oder mit Umluft oder kombiniert?
      Bin sehr gespannt, ob mir das gelingt!
      Beste Grüße vom Erhalter

      Delete
  15. Hab 2 mal zu backen versucht. Temperatur im vorgeschlagenen Bereich. Beim Messen im Ofen mit dem Thermometer die Hand verbrannt. Heilt nach 7 Tagen schon ganz gut.
    Ergebnis: leider alles wie zuvor, blinkt, blinkt, blinkt.
    Ob jemand an dem alten Gerät Interesse haben könnte? Panel völlig OK ohne jeden Kratzer. Originalverpackung vorhanden. Will dafür eigentlich gar nix außer den Transportkosten. Soll nicht einfach in den Müll wandern.
    Liebe Grüße vom Erhalter

    ReplyDelete

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