I have been using the 809 for a while. It replaced the Marantz SR7007, because its spacial sound representation was much more impressive.
When I saw the former top range 5009 on eBay I just had to have it. The seller said that it did not produce any sound. Thus, I was confident to find a familiar fault. I was wrong.
When I plugged it in cold straight from the box it started with a strange rattling noise from one of the relay. That couldn't be right. A check of the software versions showed that the DSP was ok. Good.
A few moments later - KLACK - the mains fuse triggered. This was reproducible. I unplugged the huge analog transformer and the fuse stayed on. A relay was acting up though. So, this relay switched the transformer on and off in a too quick succession. This triggered the fuse due to the inrush current.
First I suspected a defect relay. However, with time and warm-up the problem disappeared. I went ahead, connected the TV and got no image. Not even the Onkyo logo. Sound from analog and optical inputs was basically ok, albeit a little too silent. The HDMI input and output seemed to be completely dead. My PC did not recognize it as a sound device via HDMI.
So it had to be the HDMI board, which controls and digitally processes everything in this device. That's intimidating to begin with. So let's focus on the basics first. What improves with increasing temperatures? Capacitors! Although the measurements of the various DC supplies looked fine, I pulled off one of the SMD electrolytics and its ESR was abysmal!
All of those suckers had to go. Seven super low ESR Nichicon HD took their place. I have plenty of them in stock specifically for Onkyo HDMI board rework.
On the top side I mounted two heatsinks on the DSP (right corner) and on one image processor to keep those two under better working conditions. Five caps had to be replaced there.
After putting the board back in the image was still missing. What the heck? A factory reset and the monster was good to go!
The 5009 is a huge piece of hardware and on a much higher level than the cheaper ones. The sound compared to the 809 is a lot smoother and more natural. Onkyo has put more effort into the digital domain, obviously, because the analog amplifiers are identical, with a little more juice in the power section.
Update - Relay Trouble
The main relay died. Its coil was open. What is it with those Onkyos that their relays die like flies?
Finding a replacement turned out to be difficult. The original part in the 5009 is a STD-S10DMR2. Notice the 2 at the end! Smaller Onkyos use the SDT-S-109LMR2.
Both types are designed with a reduced power consumption in mind. Let's look at the data sheet:
In forums I read that the voltage is too high. I soldered in a resistor with the specified value of the coil and measured more than 10V until the speaker relays clicked. Then it went down to a little more than 9V.
It was impossible to find the original DMR2 part, only the DMR. Also, the 9V types were unobtainable except from Aliexpress. On eBay I ordered 12V STD-DMR. In the meantime I found a spare 10A 12V relay for testing. After adjusting R9109 it worked fine, the receiver is back alive. The voltage is now between 11.5 and 10.5 volts.
So, the relays are not plug and play when you replace the low power with the normal types! You must adjust R9109 to bring the voltage to the proper range. Also, take notice if it is a LMR (5A) or DMR (10A) type! The size is the same, so, if you are planning to put some on stock, the DMR will fit all receivers.
The DMRs have a higher inrush current rating of TV-8. In that sense, they are quite unique. During my search for a replacement I only found TV-5 ratings.
I think that the low-power DMR2 / LMR2 relays were garbage and Onkyo hit them with a little too much voltage. It does not surprise me that I could not find any of those types. Only the normal ones.
Surprisingly, only the main relay got too much voltage. The ones for the secondary transformers were all inside the spec.
Update Dec 2019
Still running almost every day without problems. I love this machine! The sound is smooth, colorful and detailed. The distance to the 809 that I've used for a while before is substantial.
I have sourced relais with the TV-8 inrush current rating in the meantime. So far my replacement relais is working fine, so no hurry there.
Update August 2021
Still running perfectly fine. Besides the 55 inch Panasonic plasma TV this repair is giving me the most joy.
nicev great work!!....i also have a 5009 unfortunate its gathering dust.... it seems it has an HDMI board problem no sound!! i wish i have your skill or know somebody with your skills
ReplyDeleteYou really should find someone who is capable of swapping the capcitors on the HDMI board. This might be the only fault and costs about 10$ to fix it.
DeleteHi Alpengeist. Your post is giving me some hope. I have a no sound issue with my tx nr5009. Its a grey product so nobody wants to touch it. I got the sound fixed but it worked for 2 weeks and died again. They has put a heatsink on the dsp. When i turn the receiver the u get the display and just 1 click sound. I dont get the secound click. Could you please help. Thanks
ReplyDeleteWell, all I know about this device is written in my blog post. I suggest you follow my repair steps. If that doesn't succeed I am afraid I can't help.
Deletehi,
ReplyDeleteich habe viele über deine rep versuche an diversen onkyos gelesen. heute ist mein 414 verstorben dsp zeigt ??? Leider habe ich kein equipment um das zu beheben, würdest Du das gegen entschädigung (gerne ohne garantie) machen? Oder hast du eine Adresse, wo ich das Board/den receiver hinschicken kann?
Servus,
DeleteAuftragsarbeiten mache ich keine. Es gibt auch keine richtige Reparatur, weil es der Chip selbst ist und den gibt es nicht als Ersatzteil. Mal funktioniert das Erhitzen, mal nicht. Die 800er, 1000er, 5000er haben zusätzlich (oder sogar nur) Kondensatorprobleme. Die kann man richtig fixen.
Danke für die Antwort. Wenn ich den Verstärker warmlaufen lasse (30min) aus und wieder einschalte funktioniert er wieder. Ich kenne das ähnlich von den 2006er macbook pros wo sich die gpu von der platine gelöst hat. da gabs "Spezialisten" wie sand am meer die das reparieren konnten. Ich mag nicht mit einer heissluftpistole da ran gehen, mal schauen ob ich jemanden finde, der sich auf so etwas spezialisiert hat.
ReplyDeleteYes a good unit, got two, but recently noticed some level issues with surround left, and no surround back left, plus configuring heights give me no audio or test white noise. Zones 2 and 3 work ok, and I have cleaned all the pins on the amplifier cards which reduced coupling noise on power up to nothing. My other unit is fine. I think the revised DSP has had a poor job of replacement. There is a guy in Spain on Ebay that offers a service, I may check that out, but yes the audio is great.
ReplyDeleteFirst consider swapping the electrolytic caps on the HDMI board. Those go bad sooner or later.
DeleteYes, I got moaned at for doing that, but I do have some. I get it that the ESR goes bad, but for my fault, I cannot find anything on Google.
ReplyDeleteWith the surround left, I can calibrate the white noise, the actual audio from the DTS is about six dB down, I can compensate that.
I grew the system to surrround back, and only had surround back right, then throw some front heights into the mix and nothing at all.
Be nice to find a revised HDMI board, test it out, then re-cap it. I had to pay for one of my recalls because of the capacitors were changed prior.
A weird defect because it's so selective with output channels. Doesn't sound like a DSP fault to me at first glance. Have you compared the pre-amp outputs to see whether they work the same across all channels? That way you could potentially rule out the DSP and pre-amp stage - or not...
DeleteYes I can get all nine channels on multi analogue inputs, and using the first five with Zones 2 and 3 powered.
ReplyDeleteYou mean analog outputs? Not sure if I follow you here. Anyway, if those are good, there is no trouble with the DTS chip. It must be in the power amplifiers.
DeleteSorry
ReplyDeleteOn the back there are nine inputs to use another source's DAC, i.e. a DVD or Bluray's analogue multi-channel outputs. Bottom line is I know all nine channels from cards to outputs works okay.
OK, I think I have rectified the fault. If you need to get to the amp section or something that requires attention to take the back off be especially careful not ro catch the surface mount inductors off of the DAC board on the right side of the unit (where the HDMI board mounts into). I must have caught this before, (L1007), and caught it again, thus it went flying across the room! thought right that's it going to break it down for spares for my other one. I eventually found it which saved me digging the schematic for some form of replacement, and soldered it back on. Carefully went through everything and done a quick bench test with both wide and high nine channel configuration with some vTuner playing, and the missing channels worked, plus as configured higher, the surround left played higher. Thought I'd give the update before placing back in home position. Thanks for your time, I will give a final update once back in situe (home)!
ReplyDeleteSo this appears to have rectified the issue.
DeleteJust be careful not to knock the DAC board should you need to pull the back away at all. I would even go as far as removing the HDMI board to remove that for the sake of the damage that is possible. I would have snapped some pictures if I could attach. Anyway, again many thanks, was one of these faults that had to be something stupid as I couldn't find anything online, only the usual with the DTS I.C. and relays, which I have never heard of before stumbling on this post.
Thanks
Interesting, thanks for sharing. I hope I never have to dive so deep into the guts :)
DeleteHello, I have been following this hio for a month, I have another 5009 and my problem is that I have sound if I insist, when after a night without working I turn it on for the first time and I have no sound, I turn it off I turn it on again with the remote control or from the button on the front under the Onkyo logo it does not matter, and sometimes it turns on at 3 and others at 7 or 8 times of trying, I have it connected to a PC, it recognizes it but it drives me crazy sometimes; Once it turns on everything goes without problems, then I can disconnect it and when it turns it on again a few hours later there are times that it goes to the first one and others not now, recently the image has gone and green stripes appear but the osd menu and the Configuration if they appear, but if I leave the image output HDMI connected now the sound has interruptions. Alpengeist, do you think it is also the same cause of capacitors? I have spoken with a trusted technician about your opinion and he tells me that it cannot be just that, he has told me that it is a problem with the rebaling of the image and sound chip. I have shown him your thread and your results ... I would like to have a second opinion, what do you think? What should I do? Thanks for shedding some light on this topic.
ReplyDeleteIf it is not much to ask, I would need and appreciate your answer as soon as possible, thank you
ReplyDeleteI suggest that you fix the capacitors first and then see what happens. As you also have trouble with the image, it very much looks like a power supply issue.
DeleteAnd the energy problem is because of the capacitors, is that right? Thanks for your quick response
ReplyDeleteCorrect.
DeleteThank you, I will keep you informed of my progress and so we can contribute with more information if possible to repair this jewel.
ReplyDeleteIf I saw courage with a tutorial that indicated necessary materials, methods of replacement and removal of defective capacitors and disassembly of the HDMI board with more step-by-step photos or videos, I would try to do it myself, since I suppose that you are not there in my country...
Alpengeist, do you have any tutorials other than this thread?
Could you answer these questions and we could create a tutorial on the fly?
1º In the Mr Carlson's Lab channel: Electrolytic Capacitor Removal NO Desoldering Required, I have seen how this user removes them from the plate and it seems easy, how do you remove them? Do I solder the new ones on the existing solder? How and With what materials, soldering iron and tin did you make it?
2º How are the different flat cables on the board removed?
I am using the Carlson method, too. To unlock the thick flat cables you need to press down on the socket.
DeleteA tutorial or even video is too much effort for me. My posts are for people who can mostly help themselves and just need some guidance to locate the defect.
Ok
DeleteWhere are you from Alpengeist ?, Could I send you my motherboard to do the same to you? Do you have email to speak privately?
ReplyDeleteSorry, I don't do repair jobs. Too much can go wrong.
Delete😔, gracias.
ReplyDeleteIf, for example, I change the 220μF / 4v capacitors to 220μF / 16v, and the 100μF / 16v capacitors I change them to 100μF / 25v, would you ensure good performance and a longer life? Did you keep the same values of these?
ReplyDeleteThe originals have already a sufficient voltage rating. No need to top that. More important is that the caps are high quality low ESR types.
DeleteOk, thanks
ReplyDeleteAlpengeist How is the silver flat cable disconnected? How did you remove the condensers, did you apply heat with the soldering iron or with some tweezers, did you give it a twist? can you explain it to me? thank you
ReplyDeleteSee my comment above.
DeleteWell, I am going to describe what is the DEFINITIVE solution for the Onkyo TX-NR5009, after thinking if I myself tried to repair it or take it to a specialist and did something with this jewel, I took it to the specialist that my technician recommended- particular specialist and to evaluate.
ReplyDeleteMy technician, as I said, told me about Rebaling and that to ensure I would change the capacitors ... the technicians I met suggested the subject and first we changed the capacitors as Alpengeist exposes here ... in My case the result did NOT work, it remained the same , so I reaffirmed again that I would do the Rebaling but of the three main chips of the board, the image and the two sound and FINALLY my Onkyo has returned to normal everything perfect as it was new. So far I have tested it for 10 hours in a row with all kinds of formats and it works perfectly.
There are many YouTube videos that did not go astray in the belief also of models from years ago that the culprit of everything was the Dolby / DTS chipset that overheats and several users with different methods applied Reflow to it and it worked again , but of course temporarily, well, YES, the problem is the soldering of these chipsets, for many reasons they can be and do not hold.
So I give as a solution in the first instance to change the capacitors as shown by Alpengeist and second to make Authentic Rebaling and not Reflow of the Marvel Image chipset and the Analog Device Sound Chipset and that of Dolby / DTS which depend on each other according to the internal technical diagram with someone who knows and masters the technique to perfection.
I hope that everything commented on this Blog by Alpengeist and this will be of help to more users who have this sound machine.
Greetings.
It would be easy if all 5009 had the same defect. Alas, that's not the case. Therefore there is not one simple solution.
Delete1) The only chip concerned with audio is the Texas Instruments DTS chip. The Marvel and AMD are the video processor and decoder. If you only experience audio trouble, don't touch those two. I always put a heatsink on the Marvel, because it gets even hotter than the DTS chip.
2) The caps go bad sooner or later. To swap them is a must. This always the first and cheapest measure. If that doesn't fix the problem, there is more.
3) The DTS chips do go bad, that has been acknowledged by Texas Instruments. They called it "premature aging". The chips series "B" has been pulled from the market and replaced with "D". Whether the chip is bad or the soldering cannot be determined as the observable effect is the same. Both is possible.
3) A reballing will not tell whether it was the chip or the soldering, because it does both, heating the chip and resolder it. It can be unnecesary ceremony.
Reballing needs 3 heating cycles. This is a stress risk and could break the chip. I've reballed the DTS chip on two occasions and that did not change anything because it was dead. I'd stay with a simple reflow for the DTS chip.
The two video chips are a different issue and most likely have a different repair strategy. I cannot comment much on that. However, I do suggest to not mix audio and video problems.
Thanks once again for the information you provide here.
ReplyDeleteIn my case Alpengeist had problems in both, I have been working for two days and it is still working perfectly, it is too early to evaluate the quality of the Rebaling, the capacitors as I say are replaced as you have done to ensure, I could not look at the ESR in its file but ... there are new ones.
Indeed, everything you say about the warm-up process is how the Rebaling professional commented on it and he showed me the correct way to do it and its result in optimal conditions..
This is a great resource, so thanks for the advanced tutorial; I understand it is a lot of effort. To start though, how do I remove the top panel... or do I just have to take the whole thing apart? If so, what are those steps? Finally, thanks again and I plan on starting my refurb in a few days.
ReplyDeleteAh, found the service manual and was being lazy. hope everyone is having a good new year so far.
ReplyDeleteThanks! Do you have a list of which caps you used to replace the broken ones with? (Values etc)
ReplyDeleteMost are 100µ 16V, one 25V 220µ if I remember that right. Nothing special. I used Nichicon HD. Other quality low ESR types work as well.
DeleteGreat thank you!
DeleteDo you think no matrix issues/ no sound can be solved by replacing the caps? Or is the only possible solution to reflow the DTS chip? Many thanks!
DeleteBoth is possible. I have no way to tell you which is more likely in your specific case.
DeleteOk thanks for the input!
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ReplyDelete